This video will be especially fun, because I have a chance now to interview my co-instructor, Dr. Terrence Sejnowski. Terrence's pioneering research in neural networks and computational neural science, have made him a living legend. Dr. Sejnowski is an investigator at Howard Hughes medical institute, and the Francis Crick professor at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies where he directs the Computational Neurobiology Laboratory. Above and beyond all of that Dr. Sejnowski is also in the elite group of only ten living scientists. To have been elected to all three of the national academies, in engineering, science, and medicine. 这个视频会特别有意思 因为我现在有机会采访一下我的合作老师特伦斯·谢诺沃斯基 (Terrence Sejnowski) 博士 特伦斯在神经网络和计算神经科学上的开拓性研究 使他成为一个传奇人物 谢诺沃斯基博士是霍华德·休斯医学研究所 (Howard Hughes Medical Institute) 的一位研究员 并被索尔克生物研究所 (Salk Institute for Biological Studies) 评为弗朗西斯·克里克 (Francis Crick) 教授 他同时还管理着那里的计算神经生物学实验室 除此之外 谢诺沃斯基博士于十大在世杰出科学家的精英队伍中也有一席之地 他被三所美国国家学院聘为院士 分别是工程学院、科学院和医学院
What I think perhaps is most impressive however is that Terry has also graduated more computational neural scientists, than any other scientist. In some sense then, this makes Dr. Terrence Sinalski a leading father figure for the modern field of neuroscience. 对我而言印象最深刻的或许是 特里 (Terry是Terrence的昵称) 比别人带出了更多的计算神经学家 特里 (Terry是Terrence的昵称) 比别人带出了更多的计算神经学家 从某种意义上来说 这使得特伦斯·谢诺沃斯基博士在现代神经生物学领域 成为了像父辈般的领军人物
The ultimate goal of Dr. Sejnowski's research is to build linking principles, from brain to behavior using computational models. 谢诺沃斯基博士研究的最终目标是 通过计算机模型构造大脑和行为之间的联系准则
Today, I'm going to ask Terry a few questions about how he learns. And how he thinks about learning, so that we all might get a better sense of how to improve our own learning. 今天我要采访一下特里是如何学习的 以及他如何看待学习这件事 以便我们对如何提高自身的学习水平有更好的认知
So what do you do to help yourself learn more easily, when you're looking at something completely new? >> Well I like to get into the thick of it. I don't get much out of just going and reading a lot of books. And, when I was in Graduate School, I made a transition from Physics to Biology. And the way I did it was to get into a Biology lab. And get involved in experiments. And I, I'm a firm believer in learning by doing, and learning by osmosis from people who are experts. >> How do you keep yourself paying attention, during something like a boring lecture? >> I found that there isn't, a simple way to keep yourself attending something that you're not interested in. But I have found a little trick to waylay the, the speaker, and that is by asking a question. — 当你遇到完全陌生的事物时 是怎样让自己学习起来更容易的呢？ — 我喜欢单刀直入地实践 大量的阅读对我来说作用甚微 我在研究生院时从物理系转到了生物系 使用的方法就是进入到生物实验室里去 并开始参与实验 我极力推崇实践出真知 同时最好有专家的指点 — 你如何让自己在一场枯燥的讲座中保持注意力呢？ 你如何让自己在一场枯燥的讲座中保持注意力呢？ — 我认为没有任何简单的方法 可以让你对不感兴趣的东西一直保持参与度 但是我发现了一个小技巧 就是用提问来“伏击”演讲者
And the interruption often, gives rise to a discussion that is a lot more interesting. And it actually follows the general principle which is that you learn more by active engagement rather than passive listening. 这种打断通常会带出更有趣的讨论 这种打断通常会带出更有趣的讨论 事实上 这符合一般准则 即比起被动的听讲 积极参与会让你学到更多
>> So, what do you do to get into and take advantage of diffuse mode thinking? — 那么你是如何进入发散思维模式 并从中获益的呢？
I find that when I'm jogging, or out getting exercise, that it's a wonderful way to get the mind disengaged, from the normal train of thought. And I find that it's very very possible to to sort of come up with new thoughts, new ideas. And it's almost as if your brain goes into a new mode, you're running along, things are passing you by. And you start thinking about what's happening. For example, things that, that your brain has been working on, your out of conscious thoughts bubble to the surface. And often new ideas that are going to be then helpful to you later on. The only problem I have is remembering all those great ideas. Because when I get back and take a shower, then a lot of them have evaporated. And that's why I, I like to take a little notebook along with me, so I can take notes and remember what it is that I was thinking about.
— 我发现慢跑或户外锻炼 是让我的思维跳出常规想法的绝佳方法 而且这时极其可能迸发灵感 而且这时极其可能迸发灵感 这就像你的大脑进入了一个新模式 你在奔跑 事物从你身边略过 于是你开始思考发生的一些事情 例如你的大脑之前一直在处理的东西 (之后) 意识之外的想法涌上表面 接着通常就会出现有用的新想法 我所面临的唯一问题就是要把这些好点子全部记下来 因为每当我回去洗过澡后 很多想法都消失了 这就是为什么我喜欢随身携带一个小本子 因为这样我就能用笔记下当时的想法。
>> So, do you multitask, or, or if you don't, how do you resist the urge to multitask when you want to multitask? >> Well, I wouldn't survive if I didn't multitask. And most of my talking with students, listening to lectures, interacting with a lot of people who are passing through, visitors. There's just a lot things that are bombarding you, email, texting any these are very important things that you want to do, but if you can't juggle them, it's hard to get through the day. However, I, I enjoy the evenings when the hubbub of the day quiets down, and I get a chance to go into a, a more reflective mode, and that's when I actually get my best work done.
— 你会同时进行多项任务吗 如果你并不会这么做的话 你是怎样抵御这种想要同时进行多项任务的冲动呢？ — 我真是一刻也离不开多线工作 我一天中的大部分时间都用在同学生讨论、听讲座 以及接待大量访客上 有大量任务在不断“轰炸”你 电子邮件 短信之类的 这都是你想完成的重要任务 电子邮件 短信之类的 这都是你想完成的重要任务 如果做不到统筹兼顾的话 日子将会很难熬 然而 当白日的喧嚣平息下来后 我会享受夜晚的时光 (那时) 我更容易进入反思模式 这时候的工作质量最好
>> Do you do two things at the same time ever? >> Well, you know, you can't actually do two things, consciously, at the same time, because those will get mixed up. It, its is possible with a lot of training, actually, to do two things at once, is, but it's, it's, you're not doing it efficiently. For me, multitasking is, is being able to switch back and forth, context switching from one topic to another. And some people are better at that than others. In other words sometimes takes a while to get into the swing of things if you're in, in the middle of writing a paper. For example it may take hours before you get to the point where you can actually be productive in area, actually able to get something accomplished. But if, if, if you can you know after getting lay you know, into the middle of something switching from that to another task. Is, is sometimes very difficult to do, if, if you're, if, if you're middle of something. But, I can do that very easily. I can switch back and forth. And I seem to be able to go back to the original task, and, and, and take up where I left off. So, so that's one way of, of accomplishing a lot and I get I have, fortunately I have a lot of very good students and helpers. And enormously productive environment that I'm working in, so it's been, it's really a joy to be here. — 你会同时做两件事吗？ — 你无法意识清醒地同时做两件事 因为它们会混淆起来 虽然经过大量训练可以做到 但实则效率低下 对我来说 同时处理多个任务 就是一种来回切换 从一个主题换成另一个主题的能力 有些人的能力会比其他人强一些 也就是说 你可能要花一点时间才能完成切换 比如你正在写论文 比方说 你可能需要几个小时 才能找到工作节奏 实实在在地完成一些事情 不过 如果你可以 你慢慢就会知道 如果你正在做某件事 转到另外一件任务有时是很困难的 如果你正在做某件事情的话 不过我倒是游刃有余 我可以来回切换 (不同任务) 我能够回到最初的任务 并从 (当时) 中断的地方开始工作 这是高效完成任务的方法之一 而且幸运的是我有很多很棒的学生和助手 以及极富成效的工作环境 因此我在这里呆得很愉快
>> How do you apply your knowledge of neuroscience, to your own learning? Well, you know, I think there are many little ways that, I have applied what I've actually learned in the lab, and let me give you just one example to make it concrete. — 你是如何把自己神经科学方面的知识应用到学习上的？ — 我有很多小技巧 来实际运用在实验室中学到的东西 让我给你举个具体点的例子
One of my colleagues at the Salk Institute, Rusty Gage, made a very important discovery. If you read the textbooks, it will tell you that all the neurons that you have in your brain you had a birth. And after birth, the wiring takes place and learning, and that changes at the, the connections between the neurons. But the, but they're the same old neurons that you had when you were born. Some die. You know, so there is shrinkage of your, of your cortex. 我在索尔克研究所的一个同事 'Rusty' Gage (Fred Gage) 他有一个重大发现 如果你看过教科书 就会知道你出生时大脑内部的所有神经元 在你诞生之后 开始信息传递和学习 而这改变了神经元之间的连接 但它们同样也是你出生时就有的老神经元 有些会死亡 因此你的大脑皮层会萎缩
However, Rusty discovered that, in an important part of your brain for learning, and memory, the Hippocampus. And which is located right in the middle here, of this model brain. 然而Rusty发现 在你大脑负责学习和记忆的部分 即海马体 (Hippocampus) 它就在大脑模型上 这个位置的中间
New neurons are being born, even in your adulthood. 甚至在你成年之后 (海马体) 还会产生新的神经元
And, this, this is very important for learning and memory. It is obviously something that is very, very useful to be able to have new neurons. 这对学习和记忆来说相当重要 显然 (大脑) 可以生成新的神经元 这是一项极其有用的发现
Now here's what we discovered together. We discovered that. 下面是我们的共同发现 我们发现
If you have a animal, we use a, a rat as our model system. And, if you give it an enriched environment, in which the rat is able to move around, and do things, and interact with other rats. That, and then look in the hippocampus, you find that the hip, the, the strengths of the connections between the neurons, is much stronger there. It, it can be made by a factor of two, much stronger than in a rat that has been kept in a cage where there is impoverished environment. 如果实验动物 我们的模型系统中用的是大白鼠 被给予充足的空间让其能够自由活动 并让它与其他大白鼠相互交流 然后检查海马体 你会发现 神经元之间的连接强度提升了 你会发现 神经元之间的连接强度提升了 可能有两个因素导致 (实验大白鼠的神经元连接强度) 比关在笼子这种限制环境的大白鼠要强得多
Now, and here's now the, the key, okay so having an enriched environment is, is, is even as an adult is going to help you. Right? Instead of locking yourself, a monk in the room you really want to be surrounded by other people who are stimulating you. And events that are happening that you can actively participate in, so, so that important. Now here is something Rusty discovered which I think is incredibly important. That in the absence of an enriched environment exercise will also increase the number of new neurons that are being born and survive. And, so I, am very, avid at running. I've already mentioned that I get lots of good ideas when I run, but I also, know, that my brain is, helping me remember things, because of the fact that I have new neurons being born, and surviving in my hippocampus. 关键来了 一个丰富多样的生活环境，即使对于成人也是有帮助的。别再把自己关在房间里了，你想要被其他能激励你的人，以及很多你可以积极参与的事件所环绕。 这个发现很重要 而下面是Rusty的发现 我觉得它们尤其重要 (这一发现是) 如果缺乏充足的空间 锻炼也会增加成功产生的新神经元的数目 因此我特别热衷于跑步 我曾说过我在跑步时得到了很多好点子 同时我也知道 在跑步时 大脑在帮助我记忆 因为这时我的海马体中有新的神经元在诞生并成长
So that's one of many examples that I can point to, in which what we've learned about neuroscientists, from neuroscience, has really changed the way I think and its a pity if you look at the way our, our new educational reforms and schools. What do they cut out when they want to add a new, a, session for example learning something, for example, how to pass a test, right. Tests are being given now to help assess, how well a student is doing and how well a school is doing. Well, it's recess. And what happens during a recess? Exercise. It's running around. It's exactly what you need, what your brain needs. It needs that moment of pause of, of using your muscles rather than your brain. To be able to process that information and to, and, and get the neurons working on it. So I think that this is, again something that is, should be a policy that we need to have our children out there running around. 这就是我能举出的众多例子中的一个 我们从神经科学中了解和学习到的东西 我们从神经科学中了解和学习到的东西 切实改变了我思维的方式 你会发现我们的学校和新的教育改革方式很糟糕 当他们想要增加一个学期学习诸如如何应试这种东西时 会删去另一些东西 (因为) 现在考试是用来评估学生的学习和学校的教学水平的 (因为) 现在考试是用来评估学生的学习和学校的教学水平的 而被删去的东西是休息 那么在休息时会发生什么呢 锻炼 到处跑 而这才是你需要的东西 你的大脑需要的东西 大脑需要一段时间暂停 这时更需要使用肌肉而不是大脑 用以处理信息 使得神经元能够继续工作 因此我觉得让孩子们多出门锻炼应该成为规定 因此我觉得让孩子们多出门锻炼应该成为规定
>> Have there been any special techniques you've acquired over the years that help you focus, learn or create more effectively. — 你这几年有学到什么特殊的技巧 来帮助你更高效地集中注意力、学习或者创新吗?
I find that, being in a, a creative environment, where other people, are, are creative is, is, is a way of, enhancing your own creativity. I, I think that. — 我发现 处于一个富有创造力的环境中 就是那里的人们都很有创造力 是一种提升自身创造力的方法 我觉得
Although the image we have of the creative thinker as being isolated genius may be true of some people, it's not true of me. I really find that I have better ideas if I'm talking to somebody, and trying to explain to them my ideas. Often, that process can, it boosts the creative process and the facts, I think that you know, having other people around to bounce your ideas off of is really for me a very, very important part of doing science. 我们对于创新型人才的印象总是孤立的天才 虽然对有些人来说或许是这样的 但对我来说并不是 我发现如果和别人交流 并向他们解释我的想法 我就能有更好的主意 这一过程通常可以促进创新 事实上 我认为同周围的人讨论自己的想法 事实上 我认为同周围的人讨论自己的想法 对我的科研来说是极其重要的组成部分
>> How about test taking? Any special advice there? — 那关于考试呢？ 你有什么特别的建议吗？
>> Tests are like any other skill. You can learn them. You can learn to be a better test taker. And you have a lot of good ideas about that. I've discovered that the... what you need... things to avoid, for example. Don't get hung up if you can't answer a question. Go on to the next, because you can always come back and in fact, often, the answer to the problem that was holding you back may actually pop in to your brain later on in the test. This is how our brains work, things work along parallel tracks. — 考试和其他的技能一样 你都可以学到它们 你可以学习怎样更好地应试 并针对它提出很多好点子 我发现一些东西需要避免 比如说 如果你不能解出答案 不要停滞不前 去做下一题 因为你总能回到这一题 事实上 在考试中 这个难住你的问题的答案 事实上 在考试中 这个难住你的问题的答案 或许过一会儿就会出现在你的脑海中 这就是我们大脑的工作机制 采用并行轨道 (处理信息)
How do you approach your creative work in science? How do you keep yourself creative in the face of the onslaught of more routine day by day tasks? >> I've been very fortunate, because I have a great lab, and my students and colleagues, keep me young in terms of learning new things, looking at things with new perspectives. So, I think that having youth around really is a, a great way to keep yourself youthful. — 你是如何把创意运用到科研中的呢？· 当你面对相对常规的日常事务的冲击时 是如何让自己保持创造力的呢？ — 我很幸运 因为我有一个很棒的实验室 而我的学生和同事们 使我在学习新事物和用新角度看待问题方面保持年轻 因此我认为 与年轻人一起工作 确实是使自己变年轻的一个好方法
>> If you had any advice for a young high school or college student, about how to learn effectively, what would you say? >> That success isn't necessarily come by being smart. I know a lot of smart people who are not successful. But I know a lot of people, who are very, very passionate. — 你会如何建议年轻的高中生或大学生们提高学习效率呢？ 你会如何建议年轻的高中生或大学生们提高学习效率呢？ — 聪明人并不一定会成功 我认识很多聪明但不成功的人 但是我也知道很多富有激情并且努力的人
And persistent. A lot of success in life is that passion and persistence, of really staying the course, staying working on it, and, not letting go. Not giving up. That's really, I think the most important, quality that I see in students, that I work with, who are successful. >> Terry, I cannot thank you enough, for your great answers, that I think people will find very helpful. >> Wonderful, now I want to, this is, give a little intro here. 但是我也知道很多富有激情并且努力的人 人生中的成功多半来自于激情和努力 坚持到底 坚持研究、工作 不放弃 不要放弃 这是我在一同工作的成功的学生身上看到的 最重要的品质 — 特里 对你的精彩回答 我感激不尽 我认为听众们也会觉得受益匪浅 — 好极了 现在我还想做点介绍
I'd like to introduce you to Francis Crick's brain. 我要介绍一下弗朗西斯·克里克的大脑 (模型)
So, I first met Francis 30 years ago, and this brain was sitting in his office. 我30年前第一次结识弗朗西斯时这个大脑就放在他的办公室里
And, Francis was a close colleague of, I, moved here about 25 years ago, and got to know Francis much much better. And one day, we were chatting, and Francis pointed out this brain that had been sitting there for decades and said Terry do you know that I just recently realized that this brain is much bigger than a real brain. And in fact you could not fit this brain in my skull if you actually look at the relative sizes. It's, it's, this is a teaching tool for medical students. You know, you could take apart the different parts of the brain. But isn't it interesting that Francis Crick didn't realize that until much, much later, when he actually looked at it with new eyes? And so, you know, this is something about. 他是我亲密的同事 在我25年前到了这里之后 和他的关系越来越好 有一天我们闲聊时 弗朗西斯指着这个放在那里几十年的大脑说 特里 你知道吗 我最近才意识到 事实上这个大脑比真大脑大多了 如果你知道相关尺寸的话 就会发现它是不可能放进我的颅骨中的 它是医学生的教具 你可以把大脑的不同部位拆开来 但有意思的是 弗朗西斯·克里克直到很久以后 当他以新的视角观察这个大脑之后才发现这一点 这就是
Learning with fresh new eyes. >> Isn't it extraordinary, even in a Nobel Prize winning discoverer of DNA. >> Well, there are things to discover every day about things around us, ordinary things, that you just have to look at them with a different set of eyes and a different perspective. 用全新的视角来学习 — 这甚至对一个发现DNA的诺贝尔奖获得者来说这都是不寻常的 — 每天我们周围都有值得发现的东西 — 每天我们周围都有值得发现的东西 你们必须要用不同的视角来看待这些普通的东西 你们必须要用不同的视角来看待这些普通的东西。
