进入维度之门，打开心灵密码，享受智慧人生
Here’s an excerpt from an interview of Sadhguru, as it appeared in the Times of India on 30 May 2016.
以下是在一场与萨古鲁访谈的摘录，刊登于2016年5月30日的印度《时代》杂志。
“This happened one day. I sat down somewhere, eyes closed, for about 25-30 minutes. When I opened my eyes there was a crowd around me. Somebody wanted to know his future; somebody wanted to know when his daughter will get married… All kinds of rubbish. I thought, where did they all come from? Then they told me, ‘You’ve been sitting here for 13 days!’ When I tried to open my legs, my knees were all locked up. It took two hours of massaging and hot water and what not, to open my legs. I was sitting in the same spot for 13 days, but in my experience it was only 25-30 minutes, because the further away from the body you move, the lesser hold time will have on you. Samayadipathi, we call such a person. One who has in some way transcended time. Once you’ve mastered time, then time is of no consequence to you…” says Sadhguru.
“有一天，我坐在一个地方，闭着眼睛，大约25-30分钟。当我睁开眼睛的时候，发现很多人围绕着我。有人想要知道他的未来；有人想要知道他的女儿什么时候结婚…各种无聊的事。我疑惑，他们都是从哪里来的？接着他们告诉我，“你已经在这里坐了13天！”当我尝试松开我的腿，但我的膝盖都被锁住了。花了两个小时又按摩又敷热水才松开我的腿。我在同一个地方坐了13天，但在我的体验里它只有25-30分钟，因为当你离身体越远时，时间对你的控制就越少。三玛雅迪帕迪（Samayadipathi）,我们这样称那种人。在某种程度上超越时间的人。一旦你掌控了时间，时间对你将不会有任何意义…”萨古鲁说。
Sounds fantastic. But what’s even more fantastic is when he tells you, “This is not some feat; anyone can reach this stage of mastery.” Really? Anyone? “Yes…,” he says, with a chuckle, that’s at once a challenge and an invitation, prompting you to ask him the nextquestion, and the next, and the next…
Over an hour-long conversation filled with his trademark wit and wisdom, Sadhguru reveals some life hacks, unravels some mysteries and lays bare some harsh truths about life the way we live it. Excerpts.
听起来很棒。但更棒的是当他告诉你，“这不是什么非凡的能力；任何人都能到达这个境界。”真的？任何人？“是的…”他说，伴随着咯咯的笑声，那是一个挑战同时也是一个邀请，带动着你去问他下一个问题，再下一个，再下一个…
超过一个小时的谈话里充满着他标志性的幽默和智慧，萨古鲁揭示了一些生活窍门，解开了一些谜团并揭露了一些关于我们生活方式的残酷真相。摘录。
Q: So, we’re curious now. How do you transcend time?
问：我们现在好奇了。您如何超越时间？
Sadhguru: You don’t try to transcend time. Once you transcend your physical nature, you naturally transcend time. How do people keep time within themselves? It is only through the body. How do theyknow it is afternoon? They ate their breakfast, now it’s time for lunch — from meal to meal, your body keeps time. From one bladder-full to the next bladder-full, you are keeping time. You run out of energy and you have to sleep — it is a way of keeping time.
萨古鲁：你不要尝试着超越时间。一旦你超越了你的物质本性，你自然而然会超越了时间。人们是如何计时的？只有通过身体。他们如何知道是下午？他们吃过了早餐，现在是午餐的时间– 从一顿饭到下一顿饭，你的身体记着时间。从一个膀胱充盈到下一个膀胱充盈，你记着时间。你用完了能量你必须要睡觉– 这是计时的一种方式。
If I make you sit here for three hours, your body will want to move. Suppose you had no body, and I made you sit here for 10,000 years, what’s the problem? It is the body that is giving you a sense of “time”. When you look at time on the clock, one circle means an hour.The moon does one circle around the earth, it’s a month. The earth goes around the sun, it becomes a year. Everything is going around in cycles, because that’s the nature.
如果我让你坐在这里三个小时，你的身体会想要动。假设你没有身体，我让你坐在这里一万年，又有什么问题呢？是身体正在给你一种“时间”感。你看钟表里的时间，一个循环代表一个小时。月球围绕地球一个循环，那是一个月。地球围绕太阳转，那是一年。一切都循环运动着，大自然就是如此。
Q: And how do you transcend the physical nature?
问：那要如何超越物质本性？
Sadhguru: The entire yogic science is about this: How to align your system in line with the cosmic system. Because all the cycles of your body have something to do with the bigger cycles of existence — the solar system, the universe. If it is aligned, your sense of body becomes minimal and you can use your body in any way you want. If your sense of body is overpowering, it becomes compulsive in nature. It makes you keep doing the same thing. If you don’t do that one thing, it will keep torturing you.
萨古鲁：整个瑜伽科学就是关于这个：如何使你的系统与宇宙系统一致。因为你身体的所有循环都与存在的循环都有所联系– 太阳系、宇宙。如果它得到校准对齐，你的身体感会变到最低，你可以以任何你想要的方式运用你的身体。如果你的身体感过强，它会变得有强迫性。它会使你一直重复同样的事。如果你不做那一件事，它会不断折磨你。
How deeply you identify with the physical, that’s how much you are available to time.
你的物质认同有多深，你受控于时间的程度就有多深
How deeply you identify with the physical, that’s how much you are available to time. People who do physical things are always looking at the watch. Time just won’t pass for them. If someone gets a little intellectual and they start reading a book, suddenly they won’t know time. Hours pass by, just like that. If you go beyond the intellectual and get meditative, time simply slips away.
你的物质认同有多深，你受控于时间的程度就会有多深。那些做体力活的人总是看手表。对他们来说时间动都不会动。如果一个人开始动脑，他们开始读一本书，突然之间他们不知道时间的存在。几个小时就那样过去了。如果你超越了智力而变得富于冥想，时间就会就那样溜走。
My days are such that if I sit down in a program, for the next 10-12 hours I am sitting in the same place. Everybody else takes bathroom breaks, drink breaks, but I sit there all the time. It’s not about performing some feat. It is just that the body doesn’t have the same power over you. You are able to use the body, the body is not able to use you. That’s a good way to be.
如果我在一个课程里坐下，接下来的10-12个小时我会一直坐在同样的地方。其他人在中间去上厕所，喝水，但我会一直坐在那里。这不是在显示某种技能。只是你不被身体左右。你能运用你的身体，而身体不能左右你。那是一个好的存在方式。
Q: Is that why you advocate yoga as such a big part of spirituality?
问题：那就是为什么您将瑜伽宣传为灵性的重要部分的原因吗？
Sadhguru: Your physical body is not a simple thing. It’s a tremendous machine. If you don’t keep it in full-alert mode, you will not experience life in a very profound way.
萨古鲁：你的物质身体不是一件简单的东西。它是一件惊人的机器。如果你不把它保持在高度警觉的模式，你不会以十分深刻的方式体验生命。
I was in Tirupati recently when a school bus stopped in front of my car. I noticed five out of ten kids were overweight. A school-going child today looks terribly bored. A ten-year-old has seen the whole cosmos on the phone screen – he thinks he knows it all. What are these kids going to do in life? They may go on to get a job and earn some money– but is that it? They can’t climb a tree, run, enjoy themselves or dance. Frombored kids they naturally become bored adults. Then they will want something to “hit” them, so they will go for drink and drugs. Nothing else shakes them, so they put chemicals in their system.
最近我在蒂鲁伯蒂(Tirupati)，当一辆校车在我车子前面停下来时，我注意到十个小孩里面有五个是肥胖的。现在还在上学的小孩就开始感到无聊透了。一个十岁的小孩在手机荧屏上见识过了整个宇宙– 他认为他了解所有东西。这些孩子长大后会做什么事情？他们也许会得到一个工作赚一些钱 – 但就是那样吗？他们无法爬一棵树，奔跑，享受他们自己或舞蹈。从无聊的小孩他们自然地成长为无聊的大人。然后他们会想要某些东西来“冲击”他们，因此他们会去喝酒吸毒。其他没有东西能刺激他们，所以他们往他们的系统里放入化学物质。
Q: Are there chemical-free ways to “shake” ourselves up, then?
那，有其他的可以“刺激”我们的有机方式吗？
Sadhguru: I can show you millions of people who just close their eyes, and tears of ecstasy flow down their cheeks – you just need to be in touch with yourself. Some may look at this issue of alcohol and drugs moralistically, but the essence of it is simply this — people are looking for a bigger experience of life. Everyone wants a larger slice of life. If you don’t show them any other way, they will hit the bottle. After sometime, the bottle won’t work and they will go for stronger alternatives. It may put holes in your brain but it doesn’t matter because people still want to experience something more –even if it kills them. The human longing to experience something more is so strong!
萨古鲁：我可以给你展示数百万的人，他们只要闭上眼睛，狂喜的眼泪就从脸颊上滑落 – 你只是需要跟你自己建立连接。有些人会从道德角度来看待饮酒和吸毒的事情，但根本上只是因为人们在追寻着生命里更大的体验。每个人都想要更大的生命体验。如果你不提供给他们其他方式，他们会酗酒。过了一段时间，酒精不再起作用了，他们会用更强的代替物。它可能会在大脑上穿洞，但这无所谓因为人们就是想要体验更多的东西– 即便那会杀了他们。人类想要体验更多东西的渴望是如此之强！
Q: So, is spirituality the answer to that longing?
问题：那么，灵性是对那渴望的答案吗？
Sadhguru: Today, human intellect is sparking like never before. More people are thinking for themselves than ever before inthe history of humanity. Today, even if God spoke to you, and if he did not make logical sense, you wouldn’t buy it. There was a time when people would. So,in many ways, the heavens are crumbling. Right now it may be happening to individuals, but gradually it will become a widespread phenomenon.
萨古鲁：如今人类智力前所未有的闪耀。比起过去的人类历史，如今更多的人都在为自己考虑。现在即便是上帝跟你讲话，如果他在逻辑上说不通，你都不会领受。曾经有段时间人们会的。因此，从很多方面来讲，天堂正在崩塌。现在它可能发生在个人身上，但逐渐地它会变成一个广泛的现象。
Today, even if God spoke to you, and if he did not make logical sense, you wouldn’t buy it. There was a time when people would.
今天，即便是上帝跟你讲话，如果它在逻辑上说不通，你都不会领受。曾经有一个阶段人们会的。
I estimate, in another 80-100 years’ time, the present form of organized religion will go down. Heavens of the past made sense when people were living in such abject conditions. Today we are living lives better than the heavens, so people will tell you, “I don’t want to go to heaven. This is good.” But the human being’s aspiration to experience something more will not go away. If we as a generation of people do not strive to bring about a powerful inner experience for every human being, ninety percent of the population will move towards drink and drug – and you can’t stop it.
我估计，再过80-100年，当今这种有组织的宗教形式将会衰落。过去的天堂说得通那是因为人们是活在那么不幸的环境里。今天我们活得比天堂还要好，因此人们会告诉你，“我不要去天堂，这里很好。”但人们想要体验更多东西的渴望不会消失。如果我们作为一代人没有努力把一个强大的内在体验带给每一个人，百分之九十的人口会通往饮酒和吸毒 – 你无法阻止它。
Before the entire population turns back this incredible work of evolution – which brought you from the level of an amoeba to such a level of intelligence and capability – a scientifically relevant spiritual process must happen to the world.
在整个人类从这个不可思议的进化中退回之前 – 它曾把你从变形虫的等级带到拥有如此程度的智力和能力– 一个科学性的灵性进程必须发生在这个世界上。
Q: What if one is an atheist and doesn’t believe in anything in particular?
问题：那么一个不相信任何东西的无神论者又会怎么样呢？
Sadhguru: Atheists and theists are not two different kinds of people. Both believe something that they do not know. Both have neither the courage nor commitment to seek what is true. They want to assume something. Depending upon what kind of culture they have been brought up in, one seems like a positive assumption, the other seems negative. They don’t know reality in anyway.
萨古鲁：无神论者和有神论者不是两种不同的人。两者都是在相信他们并不知道的东西。两者都没有勇气和决心去寻找真理。他们只是在假设。取决于他们在哪一种文化里被带大，一个看上去像积极的假设，另一个看上去像是消极的。他们都不知道实相。
Instead of being a theist or an atheist, if you are straight enough to tell yourself, “What I know, I know,what I do not know, I do not know,” the very nature of human existence is such that you will want to know, you will strive to know, you will seek to know –and you will find it.
与其成为一个有神论者或一个无神论者，如果你足够坦白地告诉你自己“我知道就是知道，不知道就是不知道，”人类存在的本性是—你会想要知道，你会努力去知道，你会去寻求答案– 然后你会找到它。
Q: However, our generation’s biggest problems are still the everyday realities — stress at work, the promotion that never comes, the horrible boss!
问题：不管怎样，我们这一代人最大的问题还是每日的现实– 工作的压力，永远不会来临的升职，恐怖的老板！
Sadhguru: I was in Mumbai some time ago. Someone who holds a very important job there met me and said, “Sadhguru, I can’t take this anymore. This boss of mine makes my life a living hell.” I said, “May you be fired.” He panicked: “Sadhguru, what are you saying.” I told him, “Why are suffering your job? May you be fired. Go walk on the beach!” If you are in a job, you are miserable. Even if you are fired, you are miserable!
萨古鲁：前一段时间我在孟买。有一个有着重要岗位的人见我，说，“萨古鲁，我不能再忍受了。我的老板把我的生活变成活生生的地狱。”我说，“但愿你被解雇。”他恐慌了：“萨古鲁，你在说什么。”我告诉他，“为什么你要被你的工作折磨？但愿你被解雇。去海滩上走走！”如果你在工作，你很悲惨。即便你被解雇，你还是很悲惨！
If you are doing what you really care for, if you see what you are doing as an important contribution to the world, you will do it joyfully.
如果你在做你真正在乎的事情，如果你看到你在做的事情是对世界一个重要的贡献，你会带着喜悦去做。
This is something we should decide. Do you want to make a living, or do you want to make a life out of this? When a worm, an insect and a bird are able to do it so easily, earning a living with such a big brain is not a big thing. The only problem is you want to make a living like someone else. You want to make as much money as someone else, so you get into a job. You want to drive what someone else is driving, so you do some business. You want to live in a house like someone else’s, so you get into all this mess. You grow up learning to do things for all the wrong reasons. You are not doing what you really want to do.
这是我们应该决定的事情。你想要赚取生计，还是你想要从中创造生命？一只幼虫，一只昆虫和一只鸟也能轻而易举地养活自己，所以赚取生计对拥有如此大头脑的人来说不是一件大事。唯一的问题是你想要像别人那样。你想要赚到别人赚到的钱，因此你进入一个工作。你想要开别人开的车，因此你做点生意。你想要住在像别人住的房子里，因此你将自己卷入各种问题中。你长大所学的东西，都是因为错误的理由。你不是在做你真正想做的事情。
When I say “really want to do”, I don’t mean it as a whim. If you are doing what you really care for, if you see what you are doing as an important contribution to the world, you will do it joyfully. There will be no such thing as stress. But if you do something that you don’t care for because of something you may get, I don’t want to use the word, but in a way, you have sold yourself.
当我说“真正想做的”，我不是在指心血来潮。如果你在做你真正在乎的事情，如果你看到你在做的事情是对世界一个重要的贡献，你会带着喜悦去做。那压根就不会有压力这回事。但是如果你只是为了得到什么而去做你不喜欢的事，那—— 我不想用那个词，但某种程度上，你出卖了自己。--
Q: But “make it big” has been the driving force of this generation. We call it aspiration.No one ever told us it’s a bad thing.
问题：但“干大事”一直以来都是这一代人的驱动力。我们叫它抱负。没有人曾告诉我们它是一件坏事。
Sadhguru: The most important thing about you right now is that you are alive. If you don’t not know how to enjoy the largest phenomena that is happening here, which is life, how will you enjoy anything else? If you are really enjoying it, then everything else is incidental, not the deciding factor. I may ride a car today, tomorrow if I have a bicycle, I will ride it – what’s the big deal? You have not found the true worth for the life that you are, so you are trying to add value to all kinds of things that are of no value.
萨古鲁：对于你，当下最重要的事情是你还活着。如果你不懂得如何享受这里正在发生的最大的事情，也就是生命，你要如何能享受其他东西？如果你真的享受它，那其他每件事都是小事，不是决定因素。我今天也许开着一辆车，明天我也许有一辆脚踏车，我会骑它– 有什么大不了？你没有找到你生命真正的价值，因此你尝试着对那些没有价值的东西增添价值。
My schedule goes over twenty hours a day. If I get to sleep on the same bed twice it is a luxury. Do I look stressed to you? Will I die of tension? Never! I may die of exhaustion but I will not die of boredom, for sure. That’s a horrible way to die. If you want to be alive to life, you shouldn’t be thinking about what you can extract from it — you should see how to participate in it.
我每天运作二十小时。如果我在同一张床上能睡上两次就是个奢侈了。你看我看上去像有压力吗？我会不会因为压力过大而死？永远不会！我也许会因为疲劳而死但我不会因为无聊而死，那是肯定的。那是种恐怖的死亡方式。如果你想要对生命保持活生生的，你不应该去想你能从中榨取什么– 你应该看看你要如何参与到其中。
Q: Well, we are alive to life – on Fridays! :)
问题：恩，我们是活生生的呀– 每个星期五！:）
Sadhguru: Thank god it’s Friday, is it? People ask me a lot about work-life balance. I say, if work is not life, don’t do it.I don’t have a weekend – I work seven days a week, 365 days. Do I look like I need a vacation? If you really do what you care for, your whole life is a vacation. So make your life a vacation by creating what you care for.
萨古鲁：谢天谢地今天是星期五，不是吗？人们问我很多关于工作和生活如何平衡。我说，如果你的工作不是生活，那就别干了。我没有周末– 我一年365天一周七天都在工作。我看上去像是需要一个假期的人吗？如果你在做你在乎的事情，你整个生命都会是一个假期。因此去创造你真正在乎的吧，把你整个生命变成假期。
Joy is an insurance. When you are joyful, you are wonderful to everyone.
喜悦是一个保险。当你喜悦时，你对每个人来说都是美妙的。
Life is a purpose in itself. The bigquestion is, how alive are you? When you were five, how alive were you? Today,how alive are you? Keep acount at least once a day! If you don’t keep accounts of this, the business of your life will go into the red. At least before you go to bed, just look: today have you been a better human being than you were yesterday.By “better” I don’t mean whether you did something useful or helped someone. I am not talking about morally better. As a life, are you a little more joyful.
生命的意义就是生命本身。一个重要的问题是，你是多有活力的？当你五岁的时候？你多么有活力？今天，你多有活力？每天至少记着算一次！如果你不记一下账，你生命的账本将会变成赤字。至少在你上床之前看看：今天你有成为比昨天更好的人类吗？“更好”我不是指你是否做某件有用的事或帮助某个人。我不是在讲道德意义上的更好。作为一个生命，你是否变得更喜悦了一点。
Joy is an insurance. When you are joyful, you are wonderful to everyone. You are keeping count of your stupid money. Why don’t you keep a count of your life? Your money has become more important than life!
喜悦是一个保险。当你喜悦时，你对每个人来说都是很美妙的。你为你那愚蠢的钱记账。为什么不为你的生命记账？你的钱变得比生命还重要！
Q: What’s the solution, then?
问题：那，解决方案是什么？
Sadhguru: Turn inward for your wellbeing, not outward. If you were ecstatic by nature, what would you do? You would simply do whatever is needed. Right now, what do you do in pursuit of your happiness? You do whatever you think will bring you that happiness. So, reversing the human experience from trying to squeeze the juice out of the world, to enhancing this life in such a way that this is full of juice by itself — that’s the solution.
萨古鲁：为你的幸福转向内在，不是外在。如果你的本性是狂喜的，你会做什么？你会去做任何需要做的事。现在，你为了追求幸福做了什么？你做任何你认为会带给你幸福的东西。因此，转变人类体验，从试图榨取世界的汁液转变为提升这个生命使之本身充满着汁液– 这就是解决方案。
原文链接
http://isha.sadhguru.org/blog/yoga-meditation/demystifying-yoga/religion-as-we-know-it-will-go-down-in-100-years/
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