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美论坛:为什么中国似乎比其他曾经伟大的国家更痴迷于自己的历史

普遍在中国人的眼中对历史都是比较重视的,特别中国延绵不断数千年的历史文化,影响的范围已经是覆盖至全亚洲甚至是整个的东方。而相对于西方很多的欧美国家来说,他们对历史的重视程度相比起我们则普遍不高。为什中国比起西方欧美诸国,会对历史更为重视?

美国论坛Qupra也有位美国网友对中国人的富有强烈的历史观提出了疑惑:为什么中国似乎比其他曾经伟大的国家更痴迷于自己的古代历史? 这个话题也是引起了不少国内网友的热议。我们摘取部分网友的观点进行了分享。

论坛话题

加拿大网友的观点

All great nations, past and present, care very much about their history. History informs their people about who they are, what they believe in, and how they should live. History and culture are intimately tied together.

所有伟大的国家,无论是过去的还是现在的,都非常关心自己的历史。历史告诉他们的人民他们是谁,他们信仰什么,他们应该如何生活。历史和文化是紧密相连的。

History can be a source of great pride. For China, being the longest continuous civilization in human history (over 5,000 years!) is a very big deal. China has a rich legacy of inventions and innovations.

历史可以成为伟大骄傲的源泉。对于中国来说,成为人类历史上持续时间最长的文明(超过5000年!)是一件非常重要的事情。中国拥有丰富的发明和创新遗产。

China’s system of governance has stood the test of time, over 2,000 years and 16 great dynasties! It’s based on a remarkable and fascinating Chinese philosophy, mostly Confucian and Taoist.

中国的治理体系经受住了时间的考验,历经2000多年,历经16个王朝!它基于一种非凡而迷人的中国哲学,主要是儒家和道教。

This is what makes Sinology such a great subject to study.

这就是汉学如此值得研究的原因。


香港网友的观点

1. The Chinese culture has been inherited in its entirety. Chinese people nowadays can easily read ancient books that have been written for a couple of thousand years. This is something that no other country in the world can do. Modern British people cannot read English from hundreds of years ago. The stability of Chinese characters has enabled the Chinese to know far more about history than people from other countries.

1. 中国文化被完整地传承了下来。如今的中国人可以很容易地阅读几千年前的古籍。这是世界上任何一个国家都做不到的。现代英国人看不懂几百年前的英语。汉字的稳定性使中国人比其他国家的人更了解历史。

A typical example is Vietnam, which has abandoned Chinese characters for less than 100 years. The Vietnamese today are unable to read ancient books that are thousands of years old, or even understand something that can be easily recognised in a Chinese environment.

一个典型的例子是越南,它抛弃汉字的时间还不到100年。今天的越南人无法阅读数千年前的古籍,甚至无法理解在中国环境中容易识别的东西。

2. A bunch of anti-Chinese people are there to say that China was once occupied in history, but unfortunately, either the occupiers themselves took the initiative to integrate into China or were quickly repulsed. It didn't affect the heritage of Chinese culture.

2. 有一群繁华人士说,中国在历史上曾经被占领过,但不幸的是,要么是占领者自己主动融入中国,要么很快就被击退了。这并不影响中国文化的传承。

For example, when the Mongols occupied China, what happened was that Kublai took the initiative to issue an imperial edict to establish the Yuan Dynasty and publicly declared it as the successor to China, and then resumed the imperial examinations and the use of Chinese characters as the national script.

例如,蒙古人占领中国时,忽必烈主动颁布诏书,建立元朝,并公开宣布其为中国的继承者,然后恢复科举考试,恢复使用汉字作为国书。

The Qing dynasty was even more dry, as the Qing emperor simply said that he and the Han Chinese were of the same ancestry, and then also used Chinese characters extensively. By the late Qing dynasty, Manchu officials could not even speak the Manchu language, and only spoke Chinese.

清朝就更干巴巴了,清朝皇帝只是简单地说他和汉人是同一个祖先,然后也广泛使用汉字。到清末,满族官员甚至不会说满语,只会说汉语。

All this is documented in history. The transmission of history and culture is not whether it was occupied for a short time, but whether the original civilization was inherited.

所有这些都有历史记载。历史文化的传承,不在于是否被短暂占领,而在于原始文明是否被传承。

3. For example, I often argue with my Vietnamese and Korean friends on quora, and I can find plenty of ancient books and even ancient Vietnamese and Korean data (because they are all written in Chinese characters) to point out their mistakes.

3.例如,我经常在quora上和我的越南和韩国朋友争论,我可以找到大量的古籍,甚至古代越南和韩国的数据(因为它们都是用汉字写的)来指出他们的错误。


美国网友的观点

The claim that China is “more obsessed with its ancient history than any other once-great nation” isn’t true.

中国“比任何曾经伟大的国家都更痴迷于其古代历史”的说法是不正确的。

I’m pretty sure that Egypt, Greece, and Italy are at least as “obsessed” with their ancient history as China is. Indeed, the entire modern nation-state of Greece is essentially founded on the idea that it is a restoration of the glory of classical Greece. That why, in 1834, after the Greek Revolution, Greece specifically chose Athens to be its capital—even though it was a rather small town at the time. This is also the reason why Greece has invested so much money into restoring the Parthenon and other monuments on the Athenian Akropolis, which, believe it or not, were even more ruined 150 years ago than they are today.

我很确定,埃及、希腊和意大利至少和中国一样“痴迷”于他们的古代历史。事实上,整个现代希腊民族国家本质上是建立在一个理念之上的,即它是古典希腊荣耀的恢复。这就是为什么在1834年希腊革命后,希腊特别选择雅典作为首都的原因——尽管当时它只是一个相当小的城镇。这也是为什么希腊投入如此多的资金来修复帕台农神庙和雅典阿克罗波利斯上的其他纪念碑的原因,信不信由你,150年前的情况比现在更糟。

All nation-states are built on the impression of a shared national history and identity. When the states that control countries with lots of ancient history try to promote awareness of that history, they do so partly for the purpose of furthering a shared national mythology among the people who live in that country.

所有民族国家都建立在共同的民族历史和身份的印象之上。当控制着拥有悠久历史的国家的国家试图提高人们对这段历史的认识时,他们这样做的部分目的是为了在生活在这个国家的人民中进一步形成一个共同的民族神话。

They are also, however, trying to promote tourism and convince people from other countries to come visit their country, since this brings money into the national economy. They tend to focus on advertising specific monuments. Thus, Egypt advertises the Pyramids of Giza, China advertises the Great Wall and the Forbidden City, Greece advertises the Athenian Akropolis, and Italy advertises the Colosseum and the Pantheon.

然而,他们也在努力促进旅游业,说服其他国家的人来他们的国家旅游,因为这会给国家经济带来收入。他们倾向于宣传特定的纪念碑。因此,埃及为吉萨金字塔做广告,中国为长城和紫禁城做广告,希腊为雅典的阿克罗波利斯做广告,意大利为罗马斗兽场和万神殿做广告。

ABOVE: Photograph from this article from The Guardian of various tourists taking photos with the Parthenon on the Athenian Akropolis

上图:来自《卫报》的照片,各种游客在雅典阿克罗波利斯上与帕台农神庙合影


上海网友的回答

An important reason why Chinese people pay attention to history is that there are many lessons in history for people to learn.

中国人重视历史的一个重要原因是,历史上有很多可供人们学习的教训。

By studying important events in history, we can help us to eliminate some obviously wrong choices and clear the direction of possible success when facing difficulties.

通过研究历史上的重要事件,我们可以在面临困难时帮助我们消除一些明显错误的选择,明确可能成功的方向。

When studying history, its practical significance is to let us understand the laws of human society and human nature's response, as well as what changes may be brought about by possible accidents. This applies to a very wide range of fields such as society, economy, humanities and military affairs.

研究历史,它的现实意义在于让我们了解人类社会的规律和人性的反应,以及可能发生的意外会带来什么样的变化。这适用于社会、经济、人文、军事等非常广泛的领域。

Fortunately, China's history has been described countless times in very detailed written language from different perspectives, and the corresponding figures, objects and places are left on the same land. This makes history no longer an abstract and simplified story, which makes history a fact that can be analyzed and studied in detail.

幸运的是,中国的历史已经用非常详细的文字从不同的角度描述了无数次,相应的人物、物体和地点都留在了同一片土地上。这使得历史不再是一个抽象的、简化的故事,这使得历史成为一个可以详细分析和研究的事实。

At the same time, because of the universality of Chinese characters, we do not need to become scholars to read them. Any Chinese who have received basic education can acquire the knowledge we need by reading ancient texts.

同时,由于汉字的普遍性,我们不需要成为读书人就能读懂汉字。任何受过基础教育的中国人都可以通过阅读古籍获得我们所需要的知识。


新加坡网友的回答

To the Chinese, history is like the Bible to Christians. History is a guide to social development. Unlike Eric Chan's fantasies, The Chinese pragmatic culture makes history accurate and valuable. For example, since 1057 BC, China has recorded 32 times of Comet Halley's return in 40 times, which is the highest in the world. (Why is this comet called Halley, not a Chinese name?)

历史之于中国人,犹如圣经之于基督徒。历史是社会发展的指南。与Eric Chan(最后一位网)的幻想不同,中国的实用主义文化使历史准确而有价值。例如,自公元前1057年以来,中国在40次哈雷彗星返回中记录了32次,这是世界上最高的。(为什么这颗彗星叫哈雷彗星,而不是中文名?)

Therefore, the Chinese historical records have become the social experimental reports of nearly 2000 years. For the Chinese, the history of hundreds years ago is like yesterday.

因此,中国史书已成为近2000年的社会实验报告。对于中国人来说,几百年前的历史就像昨天一样。

The reason for accurate historical records is that the new emperors would collect historical documents after dynasties change in China. This is not to belittle the previous Empire, but to find out the reasons for the decline of the Empire, and to warn yourself that should never make the same mistake.

历史记载准确的原因是中国朝代更迭后,新皇帝会收集历史文献。这并不是要贬低以前的帝国,而是要找出帝国衰落的原因,并告诫自己千万不要再犯同样的错误。

//Never Again 绝不重蹈覆辙

Collect historical documents was a huge project in all dynasties, so the whole Chinese will attach great importance to it. It is also a sign of the prosperity. After all, this represents the end of the war, and hostile forces have become a part of Chinese history.

搜集史料在历朝历代都是一项浩大的工程,全中国人都会高度重视。 这也是繁荣的标志。 毕竟,这代表着战争的结束,敌对势力已经成为中国历史的一部分。

In fact, China is doing the same now. Today the United States is still very strong, but the decline has become a reality, and China needs to learn from it.

事实上,中国现在也在这么做。今天美国仍然非常强大,但衰落已经成为现实,中国需要从中吸取教训。

Of course, CNN is looking at my answer. They probably think that Chinese people like to forget history just like them

当然,CNN正在看我的答案。他们可能认为中国人像他们一样喜欢忘记历史


印度尼西亚物理学教授的观点

Chinese are generally more “obsessed” with their ancient history than any other once-great nations. It is true, but the word “obsessed” is exaggerated. A more accurate word is “value”: Chinese value their ancient history more than other nations. It is not really out of pride, but it is a cultural thing which started in the early Zhou Dynasty. The founders of Zhou Dynasty valued very much the historical lessons of China although at that time it was only about 1500 years history.

中国人通常比其他曾经伟大的国家更“痴迷”他们的古代历史。没错,但“痴迷”这个词有点夸张了。更准确的说法是“价值”:中国人比其他民族更重视自己的古代史。这并不是出于骄傲,而是一种始于周初的文化。周朝的开国元勋非常重视中国的历史教训,尽管当时中国只有1500年的历史。

We don’t really see the 5000 years history as of today as very long, leave alone feeling proud about its longevity. In a Daoism “bible” written by Zhuang Zi, a 800-years old person should feel ashamed to claim he has long life because he selectively not comparing himself with turtle and tree which have much longer life. “There is a type of bug which is born in the morning and dies in the night. It cannot comprehend the concept of one month.

5000 年的历史,我们今天看都不算很长,更不用说为它的持续时间而自豪了。在庄子写的道家“圣经”中,一个800岁的老人应该为声称自己长寿而感到羞愧,因为他有选择性地没有把自己与乌龟和树相比,它们的寿命要长得多。“有一种虫子早上出生,晚上死亡。它无法理解一个月的概念。

There is a type of cicada which is born in the Spring and dies in the Summer; or born in the Summer and dies in the Autumn. It cannot comprehend the concept of one year.” Feeling proud of 5000 years history is not recommended; instead, we are cautioned to never be arrogance but keep learning from historical lessons.

有一种蝉,春生夏死;或生于夏,死于秋。它无法理解一年的概念。”不推荐对5000年的历史感到骄傲;相反,我们被告诫永远不要傲慢,要不断从历史教训中吸取教训。


英国网友的观点

I don’t think China is more obsessed than any other countries.

我不认为中国比其他国家更痴迷于此。

It is the Chinese ethnic that valued their history. Well, they should when their “race” or “ethnicity” is something that they inherited from thousand of years ago. It would be like the Mediterranean people called themself as a Roman people instead of being an Italian, French, Spaniard and etc.

重视历史的是中华民族。当他们的“种族”或“民族”是他们从几千年前继承下来的东西时,他们应该这样做。这就像地中海人称自己为罗马人,而不是意大利人、法国人、西班牙人等等。

And they should because their heritage and history are what made them “invincible” toward foreign power.And I am glad they did cause they would be just another people without any identity that set them apart from other if they don’t.

他们应该这样做,因为他们的传统和历史使他们对外国势力“战无不胜”。我很高兴他们这样做了,因为如果他们不这样做,他们就只是另一个没有任何身份的民族,没有任何身份将他们与其他人区分开来。

Plus, who wouldn’t valued their history when it is such a long history that was continually passed down for such a long time.

另外,当历史如此悠久,而且持续流传了这么长时间,谁会不重视自己的历史呢?


美国网友的观点

Chinese recorded history at least since the Zhou Dynasty (c 1000 B.C.), as did the Ancient Greeks, something that surprisingly not everyone in the ancient world did. The Chinese used the recorded history to formulate moral and practical lessons for its rulers.

中国至少从周朝(公元前1000年)开始记载历史,古希腊人也是如此,但令人惊讶的是,并非古代世界的每个人都这样做。中国人利用有记载的历史为统治者提供道德和实践的教训。

All this was done by officials who were themselves scholars. Because of this insistence on both literacy and historiography, even officials who were not scholars (nobles and military officials) have to learn the rudiments at the least and master them if they wish to advance and be respected. The mastery of both is also a way for commoners to advance into positions of power and influence.

所有这些都是由本身就是学者的官员做的。由于这种对识字和史学的坚持,即使不是学者的官员(贵族和军事官员)如果想要进步和受到尊重,也必须至少学习和掌握一些基本知识。掌握这两种技能也是平民获得权力和影响力的一种方式。

This in turn contributed to the continuity of Chinese history one ruling dynasty after the other, and one effect is the constant minding of lessons from China’s long history in dealing with contemporary affairs.

这又使中国历史在一个又一个王朝的统治下得以延续,其中一个影响就是中国在处理当代事务时不断汲取历史的教训。


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