On 12 January 2016, lyricist and scriptwriter Prasoon Joshi met Sadhguru in Mumbai for a free-flowing interaction about marketing, culture, love, and many other topics. Here is an excerpt of their conversation, with Sadhguru’s insights on love and a sense of oneness.
2016年1月12日，词作家兼编剧Prasoon Joshi与萨古鲁在孟买进行了轻松的畅聊，他们谈到了营销、文化、爱，以及许多其他的话题。我们节选了部分他们的对话，以下是萨古鲁对“爱与合一”的深刻洞见。
Prasoon Joshi: Is it possible to love a mortal being and, by doing so, feel oneness with God? Or is this just a romantic notion?
Prasoon Joshi: 有没有可能通过爱一个普通人而感觉到与神合一？又或者这只是一个浪漫的想法？
Sadhguru: If I may dissect love…. There is a longing in every human being to be something more than what they are right now. If the only thing that you know is your body, it will find expression as sexuality. You may give all kinds of colors, names, and moral structures to your sexuality, but fundamentally, you are trying to make something or someone that is not you, a part of you. For a moment, it may feel like that, but the next moment, it is gone. If this same longing to include someone or something as a part of you finds an emotional expression, you say you are in love with someone. If you compare how long a physical union lasts and how long the sense of emotional oneness with someone lasts, the latter has a longer lifespan.
萨古鲁：请允许我来剖析一下爱……每个人的内在都有一种渴望，渴望超越现在的自我。如果你唯一知道的是你的身体，那么这个渴望就会通过“性”来表达。你可以给予“性”各种色彩、名称和道德框架，但是根本上，你是在试图将一个“不是你的人或物”融为你的一部分。也许有一个片刻，你觉得它已融入自己，可是，下一刻，这个感觉就消失了。而如果这个要将某人或某物融为自己的一部分的渴望，找到了情感上的表达，你就会说你爱上了某人。如果你将身体上的结合与情感层面的合一来比较，后者会更长久。
Physical union is only momentary, while on an emotional level, you can make the sense of oneness last for days, months or years, if you are willing. If you look at the many romantic stories in lore and literature, we eulogize someone who holds on to an emotional union for a period of time, because when people are in love, they are so beautiful. They look like they are floating in the clouds. There is a certain beauty to human emotions. Emotions are the strongest force in most people – even in those who believe they are intellectual. By contrast, a true intellectual has near to no emotions in him, because he is so fascinated with his intellect.
身体的结合只是短暂的瞬间，而情感层面的合一感，如果你愿意——它可以持续几天、几个月甚至几年。你看很多传说或文学作品中的浪漫故事，我们总是赞美那个在故事里保持情感专一的人，因为当人们坠入爱河时，他们是如此的美丽，他们看上去就像在云朵上漂浮。人类的情感确实有它的美丽之处。对大多数人而言，情感确实是最强的力量，即使对那些自以为擅长思考的人也同样如此。然而，一个真正智力发达的人内在近乎是没有情感，因为他深深地陶醉于他的思考中。
Emotions are the strongest force in most people – even in those who believe they are intellectual.
对大多数人而言，情感确实是最强烈的力量，即使对那些自以为擅长思考的人也同样如此。
Since we are talking about man-woman relationships – let us say a man and a woman are seriously engaged with each other. But then, one of them finds a wonderful book. Suddenly, fictive characters, mere words printed on paper, become more interesting and engaging than this beautiful woman or this wonderful man who is sitting next to them. It actually happens in relationships that one partner becomes jealous of the other one’s books. Once the intellect is fired up in a certain way, emotions recede. Intellect is dry, but it has a different kind of sparkle. It makes the world transparent.
既然我们现在谈论男女亲密关系——举个例子说，有一对情侣对彼此非常着迷，但是呢，其中一个人发现了一本很棒的书，突然间，仅仅是虚构的人物、印在纸上的文字，变得更为有趣，甚至比坐在他或她身边的这个美丽女人或魅力男人更有吸引力。然后一方就会开始嫉妒对方的那本书，这在一段关系中还真是会发生的。一旦智力被点燃，情感就逐渐减退。智力虽然干枯，但却闪耀着别样的光芒，因为它让这个世界变得透明，可以在你面前展露无遗。
If you use your intellect properly, it will give you access to things that you never thought possible. Because of this, the intellect has more fascination. Emotions have more beauty and color. But if they turn negative, they are the ugliest things. When people are emotional, you can see the most wonderful side of them, or you can see the ugliest side of them. That is the nature of emotions. At the same time, the way you think is the way you feel. You cannot think one way and feel another way. If, for example, you think, “She’s so wonderful,” your emotions for her will be sweet.
如果你正确使用自己的智力，它会让你触及你根本想不到的东西。因此，智力更有魅力。情感更加美丽而多姿多彩。但是，一旦它转向负面，就会变成最丑陋的东西。当人们情绪化时，要么你可以看到他们最精彩的一面，要么你会看到他们最丑陋的一面。这就是情感的本质。与此同时，你的思维决定了你的情感。你无法这样想着，却有那样的感受。比如，当你想着，“她是如此美妙，”你对她的感觉就会十分甜蜜。
Prasoon Joshi: That may happen sporadically, or is what we think in our control? Are thoughts just sprouting in our heads, or can we direct our thoughts?
Prasoon Joshi: 我们的想法是随机的，还是在我们控制之内的？想法仅是从头脑中自然冒出来的，还是我们可以指挥想法？
Sadhguru: It depends on what you have done with yourself. Your thoughts should be directed by you – only then they are sensible. Thoughts do not spring up out of nowhere. They arise from the data that you have gathered. You can only produce permutations and combinations of the existing information. How exquisitely and dexterously you do that depends on the kind of mind you have. This does not mean you have access to anything other than the gathered data. But back to your question – can your love affair make you touch another dimension?
萨古鲁：这取决于你对自己是否下了功夫。你的想法应该由你来指挥——只有这样那些想法才会是明智的。想法不会无故冒出来，它们是从你已经收集的信息而来，想法只能将现有的信息排列组合。至于组合得如何优雅灵巧，则取决于你有怎样的头脑。但这并不意味着你能超越过往累积的数据。但是，回到你的问题——爱情可以让你触碰另一个维度吗？
If you use your intellect, your emotion, your body, or your energies, you splice through your sensory body and experience something else or someone else as a part of you.
通过运用智力、情感、身体，或者能量，你能够扩展知觉身体的联结，体验到外在的事物或人成为了你的一部分。
Essentially, it all comes down to a longing to include something that is not you as a part of yourself. This means there are boundaries – the boundaries of your sensations. You consider what is within the boundaries of your sensation to be “you”, and what is outside the boundaries of your sensation not to be you. Whatever body weight you have now, all these kilograms were food that was somewhere outside of you at some point. You have slowly gathered this body by ingestion. Once the food that you eat gets integrated within the boundaries of your sensation, you consider it as yourself. But suppose you lose weight, you will not go searching for these few kilograms as if you lost a part of yourself, because once they are outside the boundaries of your sensation, they have got nothing to do with you.
从本质上讲，这一切都归结为想要把“不是你”的东西融为你的一部分的渴望。这意味着有边界——知觉的边界。你把知觉边界内的认作自己的一部分，而知觉边界外的则不属于你。无论你现在体重是多少，它都源自食物，而食物原本是你身体之外的，通过吸收，慢慢累积成了这个身体。一旦你使吃下去的食物融入到了你的知觉范围内，你便认为这是你自己。但是，假设你体重减轻，你也不会去寻找那几公斤肉上哪儿了，好像丢了自己的某个部分一样。因为一旦它们在你的知觉边界之外，它们就与你毫无关系了。
So, whether it is sexuality, a love affair, ambition, greed, conquest, spirituality, or devotion – essentially, you attempt to break the limitations of your sensory body and experience something else or someone else as a part of yourself. In one way or the other, you do this every day. For instance, when you drink water, it becomes a part of you. If you use your intellect, your emotion, your body, or your energies, you splice through your sensory body and experience something else or someone else as a part of you. That means you are in a state of yoga. If you do it through your body, we call it karma yoga. If you do it through your intellect, we call it gnana yoga. If you do it through your emotions, we call it bhakti yoga. If you do it through your energies, we call it kriya yoga. These are all the ways in which you can achieve a state of yoga.
所以，无论是性、恋爱、野心、贪婪、征服、灵性，或奉献 ，本质上，你都是在试图打破自身的知觉边界，试图将其他的事物或人融为自己一部分。某种程度上说，你每天都在这么做。例如，当你喝水，水就变成你的一部分。通过运用智力、情感、身体、能量，你能够扩展知觉身体的联结，体验到外在的事物或人成为了你的一部分。这就意味着你在瑜伽的状态。如果是通过你的身体，我们称之为行为或业力瑜伽。如果是通过你的智力，我们称之为智力瑜伽。如果是通过你的情感，我们把它叫做奉爱瑜伽。如果是通过你的能量，我们称之为克里亚瑜伽。这些方式都可以达到瑜伽的状态。
Love&Grace,
Sadhguru
爱与恩典
萨古鲁
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