In an intimate conversation en route to Kailash, Sadhguru addressed a seeker’s probing questions about the need of devotion and a Guru on the spiritual path.
编者按：前往冈仁波齐峰途中，萨古鲁与一位求知者展开亲密对话，回答了其寻根究底的问题——在灵修之路上何以需要虔信和导师？
Questioner: Sadhguru, there are moments when I feel devotion, and at other times, my own will pops up. Given that, can I consider myself a devotee or not?
提问者：萨古鲁，有时候我感觉到自己很虔诚，可其他时候自我的意愿又会突然冒出来。鉴于此，我是否可以认定自己是个虔信者呢？
Sadhguru: There is no human being on the planet who has never experienced moments of devotion, moments of love, moments of joy, and moments of bliss at some time or the other. That does not mean it is your basic quality. One moment of devotion does not make you a devotee. Only when devotion has become the essential quality of your being, are you a devotee. Every human being has an element of devotion. The question is whether they have brought it to a point where it has become the dominant force and the guiding light in their life.
萨古鲁：在这个世界上，每个人都会体验过虔诚的瞬间、爱的瞬间、欢乐的瞬间、幸福的瞬间。但这并不意味着这些是你的根本品质。片刻的虔诚不能使你成为虔信者，只有当奉爱虔诚成为你最根本的品质，你才是一名虔信者。每个人身上或多或少都存在着奉爱的因子，问题在于他们是否将其全然放大，直至变成他们人生中的主导力量、指引之光。
Questioner: If that is the case, can someone be your disciple but not your devotee?
提问者：如果是这样的话，会不会有这样一个人，他是你的弟子却并非你的虔信者？
Sadhguru: This is a progression. A lot of people initially either come as curiosity seekers, or sometimes as investigators. Then they think there is something to learn here, and they become like a student. If what they learn begins to transform their lives in some way, they naturally become disciples. When learning, transformation, and everything else becomes irrelevant, when the focus of your life becomes one-pointed, then you become a devotee.
萨古鲁：这是一个循序渐进的过程。很多人一开始是以好奇的求知者或调查者的身份来到这里。然后，他们感觉在这里能有所收获，于是他们便成了学生。如果他们所学的东西开始以某种方式转化他们的人生，他们便自然而然地成为了弟子。当学习、转化等等变得无关紧要，当你人生完全只专注于一点，那么你就成为了一个虔信者。
Questioner: But Sadhguru, could I not just follow the path of spirituality through the practices that are given without becoming a devotee, without surrendering everything to the Master?
提问者：可是萨古鲁，我能否只是通过你传授的练习来完成灵修之路，而不成为虔信者或者把一切都交给上师？
Sadhguru: Devotion need not necessarily be to a person. Devotion is a certain way to be. If you are on the path, not off and on, but in every moment of your life, you are a devotee. You do not have to be a devotee of anything or anyone in particular. You can be a devotee because devotion is your quality.
萨古鲁：虔诚不一定要针对某一个人。虔诚是一种存在方式。如果你人生中的每分每秒都在修行之路上，从未间断，那么你就是虔信者。你不需要对某个特定的人或物虔诚。你成为一个虔信者，是因为虔诚奉爱是你的品质。
Questioner: So if someone has been initiated by you, but he or she is only devoted to the path and not to you as a person, then also, he or she is a devotee?
提问者：也就是说，如果有人受到你的开启，但他/她仅仅笃信于修行，而非虔信于你，这样的个人，那么他/她也是虔信者？
Sadhguru: What you refer to as the Guru and what you refer to as the path are not different. One is personified, another is not, but they are the same thing. If they are different, they are no good.
萨古鲁：所谓的导师与修行之路并无区别。前者以人的形象表现，后者不是，但两者是同一事物。如果有所区别，那他们就不是好东西了。
Questioner: Sadhguru, you yourself said you walked the path of spirituality for three lifetimes without a Guru.
提问者：萨古鲁，你曾说过你已在灵修之路上探索三生，都没有导师作为指引。
Sadhguru: The Ultimate did not happen because I differentiated between path and Guru. That way, you may get better lungs, you may get many capabilities, you may become a superhuman. But still, the most significant thing does not happen as long as you make a distinction between path and Guru. As for me, I did so because I was brought up in a tradition where it was always said that the real thing can only happen through Shiva – no other human being can ever do the Ultimate for you. So, accepting another human being as a Guru was out of question.
萨古鲁：我没有实现终极，因为我对修行之路和导师加以区分。这么做，可能你的肺部会更强健，可能你会被赋予许多能力，你也可能变成超人。但只要你对路途和导师加以区分，那最重要的事情仍然不会发生。就我而言，我区分二者是因为我在这样的传统下成长——这种传统向来认为真正终极的东西唯有通过湿婆（Shiva）才能发生，其他任何人类都不可能使得终极实相在你身上发生。因此，接受另一个人作为导师是绝不可能的。
When the Guru came and the Ultimate did happen, though experientially, it was 100% clear to me that this is it, still there was a little bit of a question why Shiva did not come. At that moment, the Guru took the form of Shiva. It was such a childish desire, but he catered to it and appeared as Shiva.
当我的导师来了，终极实相实现了，虽然在我的体验里我百分之百地肯定我找到了，我还是有点疑问为什么湿婆没有出现。就在那一刻，我的导师以湿婆的形式呈现了。我的那个渴望多么孩子气，但导师迎合这样的渴望，以湿婆的形象出现了。
Questioner: Do seekers need to have a personified Guru? Have there not been many Shaivite saints like Akka Mahadevi, Allama Mahaprabhu, and others who did not have a Guru but were devoted to Shiva or whoever else, and they still got enlightened?
提问者：求道者需要一个拟人化的导师吗？过去不是存在诸如Akka Mahadevi、Allama Mahaprabhu等湿婆派圣人，还有其他人——这些圣人没有导师但信奉湿婆或其他神，并且仍然开悟了吗？
Sadhguru: You cannot say they did not have a Guru, because they embraced Shiva completely. He was a living force for them.
萨古鲁：我认为，应该说湿婆是他们的虔信者才对。另外，你不能说他们没有导师，因为他们是全身心地拥抱湿婆，湿婆对于他们而言是活生生的力量。
Questioner: But wasn’t Shiva a living force for you too?
提问者：湿婆对你而言不也是活生生的力量吗？
Sadhguru: He was. Otherwise, I would not have come that far. The Guru did not really push me as such. He just gave me a little nudge, because I had been sitting on the edge for too long.
萨古鲁：的确。否则我不可能走得这么远。我的导师实际上并没有真的推我向前。他只是轻轻地敲了一下我，因为我已在边缘坐等了太长时间。
Questioner: So as a devotee, I can embrace the path itself and not necessarily have a Guru in aphysical, human form?
提问者：所以，作为虔信者，我可以信奉灵修之路本身，但没有必要拥有一个以肉身、人类形式出现的导师？
Sadhguru: The path is the Guru and the Guru is the path – there is no difference between the two. The mistake is that we differentiate. Once you differentiate between the two, it becomes unnecessarily complex.
萨古鲁：修行之路就是导师、导师就是修行之路——二者并无区别。我们的错误在于将二者区分。一旦你划分二者，那么事情就会变得过于复杂。
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